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| Post Number: 61
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Wareagle11B 
Group: Members
Posts: 1457
Joined: Mar. 2004
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Posted on: Nov. 25 2009,6:05 pm |
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He was going to be deployed and he was upset about it...whoopdee freaking doo. Deployments happen as a consequence of wearing the uniform of the military services whether they are a peacetime deployment or a wartime deployment to a combat zone. The thing that seems to be going right past everybody where this azzmunch is concerned is that he was a freaking Psychiatrist!!!! He would have stayed at Bagram or Khandahar and most likely would never have gone outside the wire except when he chose to do so. He was not a combat arms officer nor enlisted soldier he was a Psychiatrist. (aka Desk Jockey)
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I care not what others think of what I do, but I care very much about what I think of what I do! That is character!
Teddy Roosevelt
www.warriorlegacyfoundation.org
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| Post Number: 62
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twingroves
Group: Members
Posts: 599
Joined: Oct. 2007
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Posted on: Nov. 25 2009,6:13 pm |
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what do you expect from a crazy muslim 
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| Post Number: 63
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Botto 82
Group: Members
Posts: 6293
Joined: Jan. 2005
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Posted on: Nov. 26 2009,9:14 am |
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Fundamentalist religious fervor is insane - in any form. 
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Dear future generations: Please accept our apologies. We were rolling drunk on petroleum.
- Kurt Vonnegut
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| Post Number: 64
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busybee
Group: Members
Posts: 2510
Joined: May 2004
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Posted on: Nov. 27 2009,2:00 pm |
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C.H...
QUOTE Seriously tho, keep in mind, they are trying to make him a victim of circumstances. He didn't want to go over seas, and the stress of knowing he was being deployed made him act irrationally
"They" can't push him as a victim unless he is the one to prove to be the victim of circumstances.
Or can they?
Could this be where our "legal" system fails to hold those accountable for the choice to commit crimes against others?
C.H...
QUOTE I mean, after all, he IS pleading the insanity defence.
Claiming insanity as a form of defense in an attempt to avoid full accountability for his choices, related to his inability to deal with his stress, can only be accomplished if he agrees.
Once again, I question, does our country's legal system "push" these types of defenses and can this be done without the accused agreeing to this?
QUOTE Doubt it will go anywhere...seemed perfectly sane when he was promoted.
I'm not convinced the insanity plea won't get him anywhere in the U.S. Court System.
He was "caught" MURDERING PEOPLE, a violent CRIME defined by our country, yet, all U.S. citizens are supposed to see him as "Innocent until proven Guilty by trial in the appropriate Court of Law."
Therefore;
He deserves a trial.
He deserves the right to an attorney, a FREE attorney, if he can't afford one. This FREE attorney's job is to defend him even though he was "caught" murdering innocent people.
If he's found guilty for anything he has the right to blame the FREE attorney because he was too poor to afford a "better" attorney. If he can find "one" mistake made in his first defense, he then has the right to request an appeal and get another FREE attorney.
He has the right to a speedy trial.
He also has the right to waive his right to a speedy trial, pay for or request several different FREE attorney's.
He has the right to blame and use as a defense; the military expectations of him, addiction to drugs and/or alcohol, insanity to the point of not remembering what he's done, society oppression because of who he is, his psychiatrist, his military colleagues and/or those ranked above or below him, simple failures in the investigation of his crime, the legal process, ect...
All of the above and more can possibly get him an innocent verdict at trial, a plea bargain to lesser crimes without a trial, and/or a reduced sentence that forces him to participate in a professional mental health program to help him "learn" and "understand" why he choose to commit violent crimes against others.
What do the dead victims or their families get the RIGHT to?
Irish...
QUOTE You view that as trying to make him the victim, personally I see that as just trying to figure out why he did it. They're not the same thing. People want to know why he did it, and I don't see any of what's been reported as trying to justify his actions.
Sadly, Irish, I see understanding or explaining why and the accused using that as a defense for a violent crime or any other crime that creates the victimization of another, as the "norm" in our U.S. legal system.
This has caused less accountability for violence, support for the true victims of crime and increased costs to every U.S. citizen.
Think about it.
How many people who choose to drive drunk and the result of this is a vehicle accident that kills innocent people attempt to BLAME a bar establishment for serving them because the employee should have known better?
How many parents aren't held accountable for not paying child support because they don't get to see their children?
How many accused get out of being accountable for robbery because they claim to be high on some type of drug and don't remember or claim to be "insane" at the time they committed crime?
How many accused get out of the crimes they commit because of one mistake made in a police report, the investigation or the legal process?
How many sex abusers get out of their sex crimes because they know the person they assaulted?
How many parents get a second or more chances than that to prove they won't put their child in a closet for a week again because they were just "stressed" out from being a parent?
How many significant others are not held accountable for beating the crap out of the one they say they love because they went "crazy?"
From the Grin...
QUOTE Hell, I'd fry a retard if found guilty of the same thing.
Exactly...
I think as a society we need to STOP trying to understand or allow the defense of violent crimes and crimes where someone is surviving victimization, for any other reason than the perpetrator's choice to commit the crime at the time because they believed they had the RIGHT to do it.
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| Post Number: 65
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irisheyes
Group: Super Administrators
Posts: 3040
Joined: Oct. 2003
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Posted on: Nov. 28 2009,9:13 pm |
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(busybee @ Nov. 27 2009,2:00 pm)
QUOTE Could this be where our "legal" system fails to hold those accountable for the choice to commit crimes against others?
I think as a society we need to STOP trying to understand or allow the defense of violent crimes and crimes where someone is surviving victimization, for any other reason than the perpetrator's choice to commit the crime at the time because they believed they had the RIGHT to do it.
This is the military justice system, not civilian. I don't care whether he has a civilian lawyer or not, it will be in military court, which from what little I've heard is a lot harder. Even if this was civilian court and he had the dream team, he doesn't have a prayer. But I think it's funny that so many of you think he's going to get away with it.
QUOTE C.H... QUOTE I mean, after all, he IS pleading the insanity defence. Claiming insanity as a form of defense in an attempt to avoid full accountability for his choices, related to his inability to deal with his stress, can only be accomplished if he agrees.
Busybee, sometimes people are actually insane. Either way, proving insanity isn't an easy thing, especially when everyone is looking for blood, like in a case like this.
QUOTE Once again, I question, does our country's legal system "push" these types of defenses and can this be done without the accused agreeing to this?
Sure, the judge and prosecutor want you to plead insanity. 
The defense is supposed to zealously defend their client. If you or a relative is facing a death sentence or life in prison, I think you're going to do the best for them that you can.
QUOTE He has the right to a speedy trial.
He also has the right to waive his right to a speedy trial, pay for or request several different FREE attorney's.
He has the right to blame and use as a defense; the military expectations of him, addiction to drugs and/or alcohol, insanity to the point of not remembering what he's done, society oppression because of who he is, his psychiatrist, his military colleagues and/or those ranked above or below him, simple failures in the investigation of his crime, the legal process, ect...
All of the above and more can possibly get him an innocent verdict at trial, a plea bargain to lesser crimes without a trial, and/or a reduced sentence that forces him to participate in a professional mental health program to help him "learn" and "understand" why he choose to commit violent crimes against others.
Your hatred for the Constitution is showing again. Although I'd love for you to go rob a liquor store, turn yourself in, and see how easy it is to beat the system. Tell the judge you were high on crack, or that daddy didn't hug you enough and let us know how sympathetic he is.
QUOTE If he's found guilty for anything he has the right to blame the FREE attorney because he was too poor to afford a "better" attorney.
Yep, they can blame all they want from Prison or death row. I see everyone from people filing for bankruptcy to people in divorce blaming everyone but themselves, so I fail to see how you expect people in prison to be better than everyone else.
QUOTE How many people who choose to drive drunk and the result of this is a vehicle accident that kills innocent people attempt to BLAME a bar establishment for serving them because the employee should have known better?
Well Busy, to answer your question I've known lots of people who have a DWI, and I've never heard that as a defense or excuse. Tell me, how many real examples of that defense can you cite?
One or two headlines about a drunk driver blaming the bar or a murderer blaming rap music isn't enough to make me think that it's a common occurrence. I've said before, the media writes what will sell more advertising, not necessarily what's statistically relevant.
QUOTE How many accused get out of being accountable for robbery because they claim to be high on some type of drug and don't remember
MN statutes regarding that would disagree with you.
Statute 609.075: Intoxication as Defense
QUOTE An act committed while in a state of voluntary intoxication is not less criminal by reason thereof, but when a particular intent or other state of mind is a necessary element to constitute a particular crime, the fact of intoxication may be taken into consideration in determining such intent or state of mind.
I looked up that statute years ago because I was sick of people claiming that being drunk or high would get you off the hook. Even in a notoriously liberal state like ours, it doesn't work that way.
QUOTE How many accused get out of the crimes they commit because of one mistake made in a police report, the investigation or the legal process?
You mean like the cops lying about something in a report, or not having probable cause for a search? I guess maybe you consider those things to be trivial, but they're not to me. Fruit of the poisonous tree... You can't use information gained illegally, and I don't understand why you think they should be able to.
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You know it's going to be a bad day when you cross thread the cap on the toothpaste.
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| Post Number: 66
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busybee
Group: Members
Posts: 2510
Joined: May 2004
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Posted on: Dec. 09 2009,4:37 am |
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I know this thread is old and all I wanted to let Irish know is that I don't hate the constitution!
I dislike that it appears more often than not every person who commits a crime that diminishes another person's/peoples rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness is granted the opportunity to pursue the outcome of their future life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness than the ones they harmed, could harm again or to harm someone else.
Do you know people who have been the chosen prey of criminal offenders? If so, do you know how well the crime against them was handled in each step of the legal process so that their right to future life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness is defended and protected along with any other person the criminal offender could harm in the future?
Honestly, do you know how many real victims of a crime are satisfied with the justice system processes and decisions and walk away with more faith in the system than before an offender committed a crime against their right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness?
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| Post Number: 67
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ControlledHyperness
Group: Members
Posts: 1056
Joined: Jul. 2009
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Posted on: Dec. 10 2009,10:16 pm |
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I would like to add for the record, that I was NOT hopping on the bandwagon saying he was distressed and that caused him to shoot. Nothing caused him to shoot those guys other then his own choice. Personally, anyone who could shoot like that, and as calmly as he reportedly was, was NOT distressed or insane.
Irish or busy, not sure which of you questioned my term of "off his rocker"...what I meant was that he wasn't all there. Using a southern cliche' of he was one oar short of a canoe...or a sterotypical blond. The blond analogy would be most apropriate, as their sterotypical behavior is not caused by mental, emotional, or psychotic influences. Of course, think of the laughs he would receive if we were to call him a "blond Muslim" 
As it has been mentioned, he is going to be tried via Military. They are a hard bunch to fool. They have the tools and resources to dig up any and all information about you, and if THEY can't find it, they can access what FBI, CIA, and who all else DID. Added into the mix that this is in Texas, I can assure you that once found guilty, he will be first in line to fry...IF he makes it that far. Then again, as this is the Military, and as they are wont to do, he will most likely be kept in confinement for not only HIS protection, but others as well. Also, look for this to be somewhat a quick thing. Growing up in Texas, something blatant as this, with as much proof as is evident, I do know that it won't take long.
I apologize if my thoughts are a bit scrambled...its been a rough day, and my brain is through with thinking for the night. If you have any questions, feel free to ask...either oin here, or PM me.
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I once had a thought...then it ran off before I could remember what it was...
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| Post Number: 68
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busybee
Group: Members
Posts: 2510
Joined: May 2004
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Posted on: Dec. 11 2009,9:59 pm |
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CH...no worries.
I just like to battle with Irish on occasion about the judicial/legal system.
Irish offers me a different perspective and I believe I do the same in return.
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| Post Number: 69
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irisheyes
Group: Super Administrators
Posts: 3040
Joined: Oct. 2003
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Posted on: Dec. 12 2009,3:07 am |
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(busybee @ Dec. 09 2009,4:37 am)
QUOTE I dislike that it appears more often than not every person who commits a crime that diminishes another person's/peoples rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness is granted the opportunity to pursue the outcome of their future life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness than the ones they harmed, could harm again or to harm someone else.
Sure, there are some that get second, third, and fourth chances and still don't get it. They continue to hurt people, rob, steal, etc. Some that I can think of I wouldn't mind seeing in prison forever, or at least MANY years until they grow out of it.
On the other hand, for many that second, third, and fourth chance does the trick. California's 3 strikes law wasn't a bad idea in theory. Trouble is, for many their first two strikes were for the same offense. And a 3rd strike could be for something as simple as a pot plant or stealing some golf clubs. Not exactly a good way to use an already overcrowded prison system.
QUOTE Do you know people who have been the chosen prey of criminal offenders? If so, do you know how well the crime against them was handled in each step of the legal process so that their right to future life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness is defended and protected along with any other person the criminal offender could harm in the future?
I know of a few acquaintances who supposedly were the victim of someone else through violence, but the version the police and prosecutor believed wasn't exactly true. A couple times in particular I can tell you that, because I was there (and no, I wasn't the suspect/accused). If you ask me, many times the wrong person ends up in jail because of another making a false police report. This is a big part of why I'm such an advocate for Rights of the accused.
I think you need to be careful in judging the legal system by if the victim was happy with the result or not. How many times have you seen people on this forum sound as if the only way they'd be satisfied is if the perpetrator was castrated with a rusty spoon and hung in the public square. And they don't even ask about what evidence is available, the police "thinking" they know what happened is good enough.
Sorry for the rant, but hope that answers your question somewhat. If I had been in your situation, I'm sure my view would be much different. I'll always be a big advocate for Rights of the accused though.
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You know it's going to be a bad day when you cross thread the cap on the toothpaste.
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| Post Number: 70
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irisheyes
Group: Super Administrators
Posts: 3040
Joined: Oct. 2003
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Posted on: Dec. 12 2009,3:46 am |
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(ControlledHyperness @ Dec. 10 2009,10:16 pm)
QUOTE I would like to add for the record, that I was NOT hopping on the bandwagon saying he was distressed and that caused him to shoot. Nothing caused him to shoot those guys other then his own choice. Personally, anyone who could shoot like that, and as calmly as he reportedly was, was NOT distressed or insane.
I don't see what being calm has to do with it. And I wouldn't base someone's psychiatric state on media reports of how people saw another person act during a few seconds of madness.
He'll probably be evaluated at some point, at which time they'll say he's fine or not fine, and they'll put him in prison forever either way.
QUOTE Irish or busy, not sure which of you questioned my term of "off his rocker"...what I meant was that he wasn't all there. Using a southern cliche' of he was one oar short of a canoe...
I know what "off his rocker" means. Here's the post.
QUOTE QUOTE I personally think he IS off his rocker...just not emotionally, psychologically, or mentally. That's not exactly the smartest thing I've read today. What does "off his rocker" mean to you if you're ruling out emotionally, psychologically, and mentally?
My point was that that post doesn't make any sense. That isn't even to the level of dimestore psychology.
QUOTE Growing up in Texas, something blatant as this, with as much proof as is evident, I do know that it won't take long.
I don't doubt the guy is guilty as sin. But then again, people in Texas don't care if someone is guilty or innocent. They just love to flip that switch.
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You know it's going to be a bad day when you cross thread the cap on the toothpaste.
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